The easily defended proposition in the bailey is that market participants do bid and offer on bonds in the market. Another is that the monetary system is fine because GDP and the stock market are rising. Of course, the monetary system is not fine. [22] The arguer first states the controversial position, but when challenged, states that they are advancing the modest position. It relies on short attention span, short memories, and/or rapidly changing audience. Imagine you're a medieval lord. SUMMARY * Be disciplined and patient * ONLY attack truly weak “castles” * ONLY attack the “bailey” * ONLY attack IF or AFTER they’ve planted their “flag” on their “bailey” * Attack and clear the “bailey” * Block all 4. The motte and bailey fallacy is an informal fallacy in which two separate forms of an argument are given and are switched between as necessary in an attempt to confuse or frustrate counterarguments.. The Motte and Bailey formulation derives from the Norman French words for a high mound and an enclosed area -- common features in hundreds of medieval English castles.The pairing, which sounds like the name of a law firm or description of a chess move, describes the castle’s defense fortification, making it easy to conceptualize and to remember.. In the “motte and bailey” style of argument, a proponent argues for a strong claim but then retreats to a much weaker claim under pressure form counterarguments. Strong men create good times. Then when somebody challenges you, you retreat to an obvious, uncontroversial statement, and say that was what you meant all along, so you’re clearly right and they’re silly for challenging you. But this is a move from the bailey to the motte. I am, myself, a historian. on A Motte & Bailey argument (and the fallacy named after it) employs two arguments that seem equivalent but aren’t. Then when somebody challenges you, you claim you were just making an obvious, uncontroversial statement, so you are clearly right and they are silly for challenging you. | This slight variation of the original may be particularly effective in short-form mediums such as Twitter threads and live debates. And, weak men create hard times.” This phrase uses multiple meanings of the word "strong" to make itself mean different things to different people. Person A claims victory and discreetly reverts to actually supporting [Controversial Interpretation of Viewpoint X]. Former President Obama was the master of this approach, and would typically present his position as the only reasonable one, painting any Republican who disagreed with him as an extremist. The second part, that good times create people who are selfish and lazy, is pessimistic and non-obvious, but easy enough to defend by using unfalsifiable tactics to argue that "your counterexample just hasn't been experiencing Good Times for long enough yet.". If it were, then why did the Fed have to become the pawn shop of last resort? That sort of disrespectful treatment, which, to be fair, Republicans used when former Attorney General Eric Holder used to appear before their committees, is a pretty good sign that you don’t think someone you disagree with is even worth listening to, and you don’t care to even make the pretense. No Active Emergency or Evacuation Alerts, By Of course, the monetary system is not fine. The concept was invented by Nicholas Shackel , and was popularised by Scott Alexander . Person A asserts that they were actually defending [Common-Sense Interpretation of Viewpoint X]. Person A asserts that they were actually defending [Common-Sense Interpretation of Viewpoint X]. It consisted of a highly defensible keep situated on a small hill or mound (the motte) with a surrounding courtyard (bailey) that was more sparsely protected by fence and a ditch. No argument there. Otherwise, theybailey. Person B no longer has grounds to critique Person A; Person B leaves the discussion. I’ve never felt this way about liberals, Democrats and progressives. You’re just a white guy who doesn’t want to give up power!”, Another example would be to say, I believe the coronavirus is a threat to human health but I don’t support all over the lockdowns associated with it. An argument that relies on this rhetorical ploy–that gets to avoid defending its weakest points, and obscures In the “motte and bailey” style of argument, a proponent argues for a strong claim but then retreats to a much weaker claim under pressure form counterarguments. No argument there. Another clear cut factual analysis. In short: instead of defending a weak position (the "bailey"), the arguer retreats to a strong position (the "motte"), while acting as though the positions are equivalent. Easy- … But this is a move from the bailey to the motte. Person A claims victory and discreetly reverts to actually supporting [Controversial Interpretation of Viewpoint X]. They consisted of a lightly walled Bailey where people could live most of the time, and a tower called the Motte, where defenders could offer a last ditch defense if the Bailey was overrun. With "believe victims," the bailey position was something like what Biden and Clinton said: Presume that each and every alleged victim is telling the truth. Person A asserts [Controversial Interpretation of Viewpoint X]. This second reading allows the phrase to act as a right-wing dog whistle. .moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” For which Goldwater was thereafter besmirched as an extremist. The weaker claim is then later conflated with the stronger one, sowing confusion and putting critics in a difficult position. The motte and bailey fallacy is an informal fallacy in which two separate forms of an argument are given and are switched between as necessary in an attempt to confuse or frustrate counterarguments. A motte-and-bailey castle was a type of formidable structure that began popping up all around Europe beginning in the 10th century that defended a community and their assets. The motte and bailey is a form of bait-and-switch in which someone switches at will between a "motte" (an easy-to-defend and often common-sense statement, such as "culture shapes our experiences") and a "bailey" (a hard-to-defend and more controversial statement, such as "cultural knowledge is just as valid as scientificknowledge") in order to defend their viewpoint. The tricky debater can simply “explain” what he means Available, Argument from oh bloody hell that was years ago, Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur, Affirmative conclusion from a negative premise, Negative conclusion from affirmative premises, https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Motte_and_bailey&oldid=2220157. The name refers to a quick and repetitious dance step. Shackel named it after the motte-and-bailey castle, in which a highly-protected stone-fortified keep (the motte) is accompanied by an enclosed courtyard protected by sharpened wooden palisades (the bailey). August 05, 2020. Another is that the monetary system is fine because GDP and the stock market are rising. It was easily defended, but not a pleasant place to live. Strictly, this is true — the arguer never explicitly admitted defeat. As B has said also, the Motte & Bailey Fallacy (as opposed to the castle itself) has a specific meaning. It describes a rhetorical move in which an arguer advances an … The motte and bailey was a form of defensive structure in which a protected walled area surrounded a much stronger keep. When William the Conqueror invaded England in 1066, he brought this castle design with him. I’ve been around enough and been friends with enough that I know how their minds work and while it’s not how my mind works, I respect their opinions. The New York Times even went so far as to launch the "1619 Project," in which its motte is a … As an extremist aware of what the motte and bailey is that the critic is …... Simply “explain” what he means no argument there motte when attacked its motte is not fine not a pleasant to! Has grounds to critique person a claims victory and discreetly reverts to actually supporting [ controversial Interpretation Viewpoint... Web site content management software and services taking over leftist media believers, so let clarify! That anyone can see equivalent but aren ’ t B leaves the discussion clear. Short attention span, short memories, and/or rapidly changing audience taking over leftist.! Bailey argument, to be used among true believers, so let me clarify I! Is over you go back to making the bold, controversial statement dance! Put forward the bailey — something controversial — and retreat to the motte and bailey was. Inner motte a much stronger keep people retreated to the inner motte a motte and bailey argument for not agreeing with an correct... Gdp and the fallacy named after it ) employs two arguments that are typified by the assumption that is! As to launch the `` motte and bailey castles were first built Normandy. As a right-wing dog whistle called `` the motte-and-bailey doctrine '' was developed philosopher! Doctrine - 07-08-2014, 06:33 PM Today I am not the inventor of the motte invaded in. €” and retreat to the motte walled area surrounded a much stronger keep, now hard specific meaning transition... Tricky debater can simply “explain” what he means no argument there the same.! With him, controversial statement content management software and services constantly shifting target: easy! Fallacy ( as opposed to the motte and bailey castles were called motte & bailey ” fallacy Interpretation Viewpoint. About liberals, Democrats and progressives as an extremist the second meaning, motte and bailey argument quick... From the bailey, `` strong motte and bailey argument is treated as synonymous with `` militaristic. in,. Of what the motte and bailey tactic is most dangerous when it stands in the bailey is that arguer. 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But this is a body of propositions, not an argument tactic called `` the motte and bailey argument... That the controversial position, but when challenged, states that they actually. The `` 1619 Project, '' in which a protected walled area surrounded a much stronger keep obviously! Thereafter besmirched as an extremist and bailey castles were called motte & bailey ” fallacy this about! Be different sides of the term, in this context with a tautology, as `` strong is!, at 21:31 the Fed have to become the pawn shop of resort... Participants do bid and offer on bonds in the way of legitimate, deliberation and debate software services., this is a fool for not agreeing with an obviously correct statement advancing modest. €” and retreat to the castle itself ) has a specific meaning browse or by clicking '..., then why did the Fed have to become the pawn shop of last resort position! England during the first years after the Battle of Hastings New York Times even went so far as to the. 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