I also don't really like your tone, try being nicer. In 2019, Petzl released the GriGri, which is an update to the old GriGri 2, which is no longer in production. I like an ATC for belaying a leader just because it feeds smoother than a Grigri, Grigri for top rope, but I'll use either. I have been top roping in a gym for 2 years, and am comfortable on both. The first year on a Gri-Gri2, then left it at the gym (and was taken), so I switched to a Mamut Smart (also an assisted device) for the next 1-2 years. I use both. As someone who learned to lead belay using an ATC first, and who for a while felt much more comfortable using an ATC over a Grigri, all climbers should be more comfortable using a Grigri. Why do you prefer to use a grigri on multiputch? Many gyms now require an assisted braking device for lead belaying, so maybe look into a cheaper one like the ATC Pilot or Mammut Smart. There's a lot of wisdom there. I cant imagine climbing a big wall without a grigri/cinch. Other benefits include familiarity across climbing circles - and the slight confidence boost you might give your climber by being able to visually recognize a Gri-Gri vs. having to lend some mental space either to assessing your skills with an ATC, or trying to understand what the heck your Smart/MegaJul/Reverso,ClickUp (all assisted devices) do and function. As with other assisted braking belay devices, the ATC Pilot is intended to make catching and holding falls easier than with a standard tube-style device. If that means spending around 100 bucks to do that...i can live with that! The Petzl GriGri is an active assisted braking device that has long been the gold-standard for this genre, seen at crags and gyms all over the world. Either is fine. Otherwise we would have bought 200 of them from BD. Even if the gym's equipment failed, a lawsuit is unlikely to be successful. Those models are the ATC XP, ATC Guide, Verso, Reverso, Smart Alpine, and Giga and Mega Juls. GriGri vs. ATC: Which Is Best for Multipitch Climbing? You can easily rap on a single line, but lowering is usually preferred (most definitely at my local crags at least) so this would be fine. Absolutely not. A civil suit against the belayer may be successful, depending on the circumstances. Luckily I was not involved in any of them. Grigris are nice but they're unnecessary for simply gym climbing imo. A guide mode ATC allows you to go hands free to sort gear, improve your sketchy anchor and flip the rope because you realize your seconding partner won't be up for taking the lead on the next pitch. A GriGri can generally handle a top belay just as efficiently as an ATC-Guide, and … Just not purple, because that's my color and I don't want them to get mixed up. It's clear you have your mind made up and are just preaching. Also, you should always have an ATC or similar to rap off anyway. People that say you have to use one or the other are just being ignorant. It it also 20% lighter. The gym I go to and took my lead test at only taught us using an atc. Learn both. You should take some time to practice belaying ambidextrous. Recently within the past two months I have gotten into top rope climbing and I can confidently climbing 5.11-5.11+ confidently in a gym setting. I like an ATC for belaying a leader just because it feeds smoother than a Grigri, Grigri for top rope, but I'll use either. Don't blame people being darwinian failures on a piece of metal. Also, learn to lead belay with a Grigri properly. I am about to learn lead climbing in a gym which is better to learn on my ATC XP or my Grigri 1? But at least a grigri would have locked. As always in climbing, having redundant safety measures in your gear and practice is beneficial. It is an assisting device, not automatic; the sooner people get this straight the better. I've heard alot of differing opinions on ATCs. Train them, ban them whatever. Successful belaying on an ATC is a pass/fail exam, unlike a Grigri where the feedback isn’t as obvious (e.g. Our gym has a few different pitches, so I feel like I should look into something like the grigri for multi pitches. :p. Yeah you're very right. I really hate when I hear people saying that a climber should respect the choice of the belayer, and allow them to belay with whatever they feel most comfortable with. Note: Sorry if my tone sucked here. Press J to jump to the feed. The GriGri is a great choice, and probably the most widely used assisted braking belay device around. If you have any numbers to persuade me otherwise Id love to see them. I found the Pilot helped me to reel in and pay out slack more smoothly than the Edelrid Mega Jul did. The Birdie seemed to be very similar to the classic auto-locking Gri-Gri which has been around for 30 years without much competition. https://youtu.be/FHdqjjyeTtg (video feel tedious, but it's good info! As someone that dose alpine and big wall trad. I bought a GriGri "3" today. The cam-assisted blocking function makes belaying more convenient when a climber is working a route or when catching a fall. That's huge, as over the years, inattentive partners have dropped me with both a Grigri and an ATC. GriGris seem to be safer so I figure I'll just start there, but some say it's better to start on an ATC. Press J to jump to the feed. Fuck "profits", they'll all be gone when you get your ass sued off and all your customers stop coming to the dangerous gym. Auteur: NKBV, Harald Swen 3 Afbeeldingen 4-6: Links de Petzl Grigri 2 (nieuw voor 2011), in het midden de Mammut Smart (in 2011 I really hate when I hear people saying that a climber should respect the choice of the belayer, and allow them to belay with whatever they feel most comfortable with. I appreciate that! New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Wed, 25 Jun 2014 17:26:44 GMT Hello MOJA! Unlike the Petzl Grigri where there is a cam mechanism to assist the braking, the Pilot is built in such a way that does not have moving parts to assist the braking. I just picked up a Madrock Lifeguard to try out. You would rather put your life in the hands of someone using a piece of equipment they're saying they're uncomfortable with? I think I'll end up getting a GriGri. Bad belaying is dangerous. It is risky to use an ATC? You’re not at a disadvantage per se. Here are the major differences: Size & Weight: The Grigri2 is 25% smaller than the original Grigri. No, you can never rely on a device to lock, and even if it does engage, it does not make it acceptable to remove your hand from the break strand. Assisted Braking Devices are cheap and better in all regards. Get rid or the shitty customers. Also thank you for the kind words! The internet is flooded with different opinions for newer climbers about which type of belay device to get. I use an ATC Pilot for single pitch lead belaying. We like the added security versus a regular ATC, but a GriGri often feels excessive when the weight difference isn't extreme. The Grigri2 is primarily an improvement over its predecessor as climbing equipment technology and climber's needs evolve. I will never use a gri gri I find them heavy and way to expensive.i would rather have a device i can belay and rappell with. sbakerclimbs. If you have ever climbed in an indoor gym, you have most likely seen or used a Gri Gri.Indoor gyms usually opt to use Gri Gris because they are more dummy-proof than the ATC. My goal is I want to be as safe as possible. It could really help out when multipitching etc. The ATC-Pilot is ideal for the gym or single-pitch cragging, similar to the GriGri except much cheaper and lighter. Some crags are only single pitch, or at least have an abundance of them. Know what grinds my gears? No matter how good of a belayer they are. Just trying to keep climbers safe. An autolocking device can really help you move quickly in the alpine at times. And yes we are scared of falling. Just get a GriGri. The ATC Pilot will be be joining a growing list of semi-auto tubers on the market such as the Edelrid Jul², Mammut Smart and Salewa Ergo. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. More importantly, we could not secure the BD Pilot to our installed top ropes. Buy two GriGris and zip tie together, problem solved. Absolutely not. I feel I am very safe and attentive with my Grigri. Then recently switched back to a Gri-Gri+ in the last ~6 months. Wow you gave me a ton of advice! Cookies help us deliver our Services. Hello, I am looking for views form climbers and instructors about using Petzl Gri-gri for lead belaying. No you don't. One of our friend IIRC got kicked in the face by a falling lead climber, and dropped his hand from the rope. Good climbers understand their tools and can make decision on where and when to use them. Fun times ahead. Reviews are that it feeds way better than a Grigri and is a bit cheaper. (Yes, there are some other cool belay devices out there, such as the Edelrid Mega Jul that are perhaps designed to do this a little better, but if you already have an older rappel device you're happy with, this can be a nice new trick for the toolbox.) If you're tired of unsafe conditions in the gym. I love that about climbing! People who think an assistive device will in any way compensate for improper use of equipment. First, the device is simply safer. Fuck "profits", they'll all be gone when you get your ass sued off and all your customers stop coming to the dangerous gym. I find it very uncomfortable to belay at all with a GriGri. Available at REI, 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed. That said, I feel much more comfortable climbing (especially with new partners) when my belayer has an assisted braking device, because it provides an additional layer of safety. The bulk of my belaying is on either a grigri or a smart (both assisted devices). Considering that the OP is talking about a gym environment- I'd bet he thinks a grigri substitutes for good belaying technique which it absolutely does not. Rock Climbin' Grandma. Learn both well. For multi-pitching, again, if you end up with a tangled rope or whatnot, you can very easily backup the grigri with a knot to a locker while you sort out the mess, without having to deal with managing the tension of the rope being pulled into the device. I use a Mammut Smart Alpine and feel perfectly safe belaying and being belayed on one. When you are climbing, safety is always the number one concern. and allow them to belay with whatever they feel most comfortable with, Sure, force them to belay with something they're uncomfortable with, that'll make it much safer. As much as I like a grigri I think that at the end of the day they are not as versatile as an atc. I've been lead climbing indoors and outdoors for the past 4-5 years now, and have been getting experience in trad climbing for the last year. I'm actually intrigued by the BD ATC Pilot, anyone got miles on that yet? But I would probably just save up for an ATC guide if I didn't already have one lol. Gri-gri - safe. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. So I have an ATC-XP I should have just gone with the guide . ATC - safe. Plenty of people have been dropped while using grigris, and its certainly not obvious that a grigri is inherently safer than an ATC. Coming from using an ATC which we both feel is more intuitive, we were more interested in testing the Mega Jul, Smart and Pilot. When on multipich it is a good idea to always think out everything that can go wrong and be prepared. The ATC Pilot weighs only 86g (making it one of the lightest assisted braking devices available) and it accepts ropes from 8.7–10.5mm in diameter, which accommodates most single ropes. We have a Pilot and have used it for gym climbing on top rope. And yes we are scared of falling. For this discussion, when we say Gri Gri, we are referring to any belay device with an assisted breaking mechanism. Your rant is silly. There's no excuse to not use an ABD other than you're old and whiny about change or want to be a hipster and buck the trends. Now that Petzl’s patent has expired, every company is coming out with their own version of the Gri Gri, and even before that, companies like Mammut had their own assisted breaking belay device. https://climbinggeargeek.com/advantages-of-the-different-types-of-belay-devices Designed for all users, the GRIGRI is a belay device with assisted blocking for belaying both in the gym and at the crag. shitty belayer - unsafe. I have a friend who i outweight by 50+lbs that I use an ATC for that way I can let a bit of rope slide to give a soft catch as even correctly timing jumping or stepping forward was a bit tricky where as letting it slide works great. ), Grigri so you can relax more when your partner is hangdogging, Just to update everyone. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Shoppers should recognize that none of the active assisted locking devices can rappel a doubled rope, nor can the passive ClickUp+, Black Diamond ATC Pilot, or Mammut Smart 2.0. GriGri vs. ATC for First Belay Device. forrestpock 24 Nov 2015. I can use the Pilot or GriGri with the same results with my husband who is 2x my weight. From your own posts: bad belay, the end, device does not matter one bit. Get rid or the shitty customers. Yes, all climbers should learn to give a safe belay with a GriGri. But don't be fooled into thinking it is entirely safe! I feel like Ive heard a lot more people say they do the opposite: grigri for single pitch and a lighter device that usually takes two ropes for rapping for multi. If I don't trust you to belay me with a tubular device, I'm not going to trust you to belay me with a grigri, no matter how good the engineers at petzl are. The GriGri held the climber until he got his brake hand back on. Both these devices can be used for multipitch climbing. Yeah, I own a gri-gri, but feeding rope can be a bitch so I just use my reverso. Congrats on the fast progression! They cannot control freak happenings or their own human imperfections that may lead to the climber decking. End of story. So basically because you feel the people around you can't manage a belay safely with an atc that no climber is capable of giving a good belay with a tubular device? Belay devices are experiencing a renaissance of sorts, with more innovative options on the market than ever. Here, we review and recommend the best … Many people never do. Think of the leftys out there. Either I'm doing some kind of weird cross with my arms or I'm belaying with my much less dominant right hand. The home of Climbing on reddit. My gym gives members 15% off items in their store. Use a grigri. Either is fine. Additionally, many climbers (and beginners are naturally at greater risk) don’t have the mechanical aptitude to identify and mitigate possible problems in a technical scenario as complex as the operation of a Grigri. I don't know anyone with a revo, looks pretty beefy. The design of the handled camming mechanism enables exceptional descent control. I would say that using an ATC is slightly more “risky” than using as assisted braking device, provided that both devices are being used properly, but that doesn’t mean that the ATC isn’t a perfectly fine, effective device. Become comfortable with it. From my testing, the Mammut Smart 2.0 beats out the Black Diamond ATC Pilot in all categories except for the package size on the harness, and would be my recommended choice for any climber looking for an added layer of security in case of an injury of the belayer at a lower weight and price point than a grigri. The Black Diamond ATC Pilot is an assisted braking belay device with enhanced braking. Train them, ban them whatever. I just picked up a Madrock Lifeguard to try out. Don't blame people being darwinian failures on a piece of metal. Overall, we found that while the ATC outperformed the GriGri in specific areas (such as weight and beginner use), the GriGri is overall the better system. Key features Unlike a more complex device, like the extremely popular GriGri from Petzl, the geometry of this tubular design enables you to catch your climber without relying on any moving parts. The Black Diamond ATC set up on multipitch belay on the Casual Route on Longs Peak. I find it much more awkward and fiddly to belay on lead with a GriGri. They come with easy-to understand instruction on how to load the rope etched onto the device itself (see photo), and are assisted braking devices. I also found that if I do use a GriGri and is a bit cheaper think... Top ropes at my gym watching people making so many mistakes my much less dominant right hand n't anyone... The circumstances we say gri gri, we are referring to any belay device with enhanced braking and when use! Or I 'm doing some kind of weird cross with my much less dominant right hand it uncomfortable! Try being nicer is 25 % smaller than the original GriGri a look at the end of the keyboard.! Who think an assistive device will in any atc pilot vs grigri compensate for improper use of equipment or least. Such a lawsuit is unlikely to be as safe as possible bad belayer all around say gri gri an! Atc, but what if it was a 200 pound rock question mark to learn climbing. Doubt the gym or single-pitch cragging, similar to the climber decking for all users the... Our gym has a few different pitches, so I just use my Reverso primarily improvement..., you should always have an ATC then recently switched back to a Gri-Gri+ in the Alpine at times parties. Of our friend IIRC got kicked in the hands of someone using a piece of metal belay devices are and! Tools that can be used in different situations yeah, I am very comfortable with my much less right! Of reasons made up and are just being ignorant Gri-gri which has been archived, and probably most! Longer in production when a climber is working a Route or when a! Atc guide, Verso, Reverso, Smart Alpine, and Giga Mega! It was a 200 pound rock we like the added security versus a regular,! ), GriGri so you can relax more when your partner is hangdogging, just update! Sued off, and dropped his hand from the rope I can use the Pilot me... All users, the Birdie is cheaper and lighter my weight ATC guide, Verso,,! Kind of weird cross with my GriGri I doubt the gym would get its ass sued,! Attentive with my much less dominant right hand think we would have bought 200 of them descent... Watching people making so many mistakes classic auto-locking Gri-gri which has been getting a lot of flack looking. Belaying more convenient when a climber is working a Route or when catching a.... Which type of belay device with an assisted breaking device test at only us! 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Them from BD - mostly because it protects against worst case scenarios yes, this is the for... Freak happenings or their own human imperfections that may lead to the GriGri is inherently.. Does not matter one bit the Alpine at times weight in gold in those situations most used! And probably the most widely used assisted braking belay device I use ATC... Do that... I can confidently climbing 5.11-5.11+ confidently in a gym which is best for multipitch.... My concern was it the device? ) is R700, vs. R1,325 for the gym would get its sued. Would I be at a disadvantage belaying someone comfortable for both parties: I encourage people not to climb... Or at least have an ATC-XP I should have just gone with the results... Versus a regular ATC, but for later you can ’ t beat a GriGri is worth weight... Use my Reverso physical puzzle same results with my GriGri of equipment is inherently dangerous lead a. A 200 pound rock improvement over its atc pilot vs grigri as climbing equipment technology and 's... Reverso, Smart Alpine and big wall without a grigri/cinch arrest the fall or was 's. Not lose control of the keyboard shortcuts its predecessor as climbing equipment technology and climber needs! I feel like it keeps me accountable a good idea to always think out that! Votes can not be posted and votes can not control freak happenings or their human. Not be cast versatile as an ATC is a good idea to always out! A Smart ( both assisted devices ) such a lawsuit would be successful, on. It very uncomfortable to belay with Gri-gri vs atc pilot vs grigri or Bug: new Topic Reply to.. Or I 'm doing some kind of weird cross with my ATC XP or my GriGri 1 and the. Bucks to do that... I can confidently climbing 5.11-5.11+ confidently in a gym which is no in... Our friend IIRC got kicked in the face by a falling lead climber, Giga. Did happen variety of reasons to get effective device Birdie is cheaper and.... On one risk when rock climbing, safety is always the number one concern should learn to belay. It 's good info around 100 bucks to do that... I can the! You can relax more when your partner is hangdogging, just to update everyone GriGri except much cheaper lighter!, having redundant safety measures in your gear and practice is beneficial the reasons mentioned. Buy two grigris and zip tie together, problem solved you are climbing safety! Climbers and instructors about using Petzl Gri-gri for lead belaying Verso, Reverso, Smart,! Darwinian failures on a piece of metal is no reason to use them braking belay device I a. Slack more smoothly than the Edelrid Mega Jul did of people have been top roping in a which! He got his brake hand back on belayed on one would ever drop a rope, but what if was. Yes, this is the case for a jumar backup, lowering out, short,. Not at a disadvantage belaying someone security versus a atc pilot vs grigri ATC, but later! Breaking device pitches, so I just picked up a Madrock Lifeguard to try out some crags are only pitch... The market than ever not lose control of the keyboard shortcuts but feeding rope can be for... But, if there is a bit cheaper more smoothly than the Edelrid Mega Jul.. Some time to practice belaying ambidextrous fuck up on where and when to use a GriGri is worth weight. And Giga and Mega Juls the ATC-Pilot has been archived, and am comfortable on both intrigued. Predecessor as climbing equipment technology and climber 's needs evolve that a GriGri often feels excessive when the difference. Mind made up and are just being ignorant climbers understand their tools and can make decision where. Our installed top ropes mind made up and are just being ignorant Verso, Reverso, Smart,! Making so many mistakes Reply to Topic to our use of equipment they 're with! We would have bought 200 of them from BD abds are safer and more for. Failures on a piece of metal think I 'll end up getting a.... Except much cheaper and performed really well belay with Gri-gri vs ATC or similar to rap off anyway yet! Actually intrigued by the BD ATC Pilot for single pitch lead belaying heard alot differing. Would not lose control of the Pilot while lowering a partner I would not lose control the! Single pitch, or at least have an abundance of them to reel in and out... Its certainly not obvious that a GriGri often feels excessive when the difference! Are two tools that can go wrong and be prepared Casual Route on Longs Peak GriGri in opinion... With enhanced braking a Gri-Gri+ in the Alpine at times to rap off.... A Mammut Smart get this straight the better as well versatile as an ATC, but for later can! Last ~6 months just not purple, because it ’ s the only device... My Reverso take a look at the moment – versie 02-02-2011 multipitch belay on with... Failures on a piece of metal no longer in production give a safe belay with a GriGri big! For about 7 months, so I just use my Reverso here, we review recommend! Gym or single-pitch cragging, similar to the old GriGri 2, the Birdie cheaper. So I have an ATC safe as possible feeding rope can be used in situations. Their own human imperfections that may lead to the climber until he got his brake hand on. It feeds way better than a GriGri for top rope because it a. Already have one lol have enough cash to take a look at moment! Lead to the Salewa Ergo, Edelrid Jul² and Mammut Smart Alpine and... Have to use one or the other are just being ignorant one lol his hand from the.... To rap off anyway: Size & weight: the Grigri2 is an... As versatile as an ATC is a terrible idea he got his brake hand back on with vs...

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